From: M.J.Rooth at lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:08:11 +0000 Subject: Re: >BUT future generations won't be able to because the fifteen/20 year old >Defenders will be electronic nightmares.... or non-existent...
What did you expect from [...] BMW?
[...]
There's nothing "exciting" about a utility vehicle,
but a *sports* utility vehicle. Oh WOW guys lets run with this one.
Wasn't it David Shepheard(sp) that wrote the definitive article
about the way that the Land Rover (I bloody well *wont* call it
a Defender) was being developed and the way he thought it *should*
be developed. And what he thought didn't include air con (open the
windows and dash vents he said) any more than it included fancy
rubber bands to drive the camshaft.
Mike Rooth
------------------------------ From: "Manfred Gorgus" <mgo at wortundbildverlag.de> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:06:23 +0200 Subject: Defender Production stopped
This morning I was talking to the Press office of BMW Munich. Taking the chance I asked the man on the other and about the future of the Defender. The following answer came up: "The Defender is one of our best selling cars and we have no plans to stop production. This is complete nonsense." Asking about plans of transfering production to another country: "Yes we were thinking about transfering the production to Russia but no decisions have been made yet."
I would be interested where the information about the Defender
production being stopped is coming from.
Manfred Gorgus,
Journalist,
Germany
------------------------------ From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure at PSS.Boeing.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:29:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Bell tolls for Defender From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi at hgea.org> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:17:01 Subject: Re:
>Good thoughts Marin but think you missed one major point. The beauty of the Defender is its relative simplicity. You can actually find the engine when you open the hood. Its simple to work on by anyone with a little mechanical knowledge and can be field repaired, if necessary. I think there will always be a demand for such a vehicle.
You are correct regarding the simplicity of the Defender's design, and the advantages of that simplicity. It's one reason I've hung onto my Series III for 26 years. However, while the running gear, chassis, and body continue in their relative simplicity, increasing emissions concerns worldwide will gradually eliminate the simplicity in the engines. In the US, the only powerplant available was the V-8, and with its computer-controlled operations, it is not something you can work on very easily at home. The Defender has an advantage as a utility vehicle over the Range Rover, Discovery (but not the Commercial Discovery), and the Freelander as the Defender is not usually loaded down with power windows, power seats, central doorlocking and other passenger amenities that are not only trouble-prone but are difficult to access and fix. But I believe the number of people in the world who want and need such a vehicle is diminishing. People are demanding more and more "goodies" in their SUVs, as evidenced by the huge number of Range Rovers and Discoveries I've seen in places like Malaysia and Dubai. Interestingly, in these same locations, I have not seen very many Defenders. Lots of old Series IIIs in Dubai being used in construction and other trades, but few Defenders.
Today I heard that Nissan was dramatically reducing production (30 percent) and was going to be closing at least three plants in the US. The reason is a sales slump brought on by losing out to the competition in several types of vehicles, including SUVs. In an environment that prevents Nissan from remaining competitive, what chance does the Defender have against the more modern and inexpensive designs from Jeep, Toyota, etc?
Reducing the manufacturing cost by moving assembly out of the UK will help a bit, but there's no getting around the fact that a Defender is expensive for what you actually get, compared to the competition. Simplicity is a major benefit of the design, but these days, I see fewer and fewer people interested or willing to work on their vehicles, even in the "bush." Use it until it breaks and then turn it over the to the garage, seems to be the attitude of the (relatively few) 4wd operators I've dealt with around the world the last couple of years. In that atmosphere, simplicity of design is not as large a factor in the purchase decision as value for money.
C. Marin Faure, Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services, e-mail: marin.faure at boeing.com
------------------------------ From: David Cockey <dcockey at tir.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:12:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Bell tolls for defender?
A friend's son worked at LR - Banbury three years or so ago on a project
to develop a new body technology for the Defender replacement. It
involved a space frame using formed tubes and some sort of applied
panels. Probably a lot closer to an IBEX than a current Defender. His
part of the project slowed so he left LR.
Regards,
David Cockey
------------------------------ From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi at hgea.org> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:12 Subject: Re: Bell tolls for Defender> In the US, the only powerplant available was the V-8 EFI.
Yes but the rest of the world got the mechanically injected TDI which is the only engine I would want. Of course that engine is now history being replaced by the electronically injected TD5.
>Simplicity is a >major benefit of the design, but these days, I see fewer and fewer people >interested or willing to work on their vehicles, even in the "bush." Use it >until it breaks and then turn it over the to the garage, seems to be the attitude >of the (relatively few) 4wd operators I've dealt with around the world the last >couple of years.
You are probably right. Even if you wanted to, the auto companies have made them so complex, they couldn't. Anyway, who needs to fix them, just turn them in at the end of the lease and get new. That's why I think there is going to be a glut of these electronic wonders about 10 years down the line and an underground source of parts to de-electronic them. I worked at an auto electric shop for a while in my youth. The owners eyes would shine when a Cadillac drove in. It usually meant a $500 or more bill, and that was real money back then. Those Cadillac's didn't have much in the way of electronics, just electrical bits and pieces like windows, etc. What you'd probably consider a stripped vehicle in todays world.
Interesting how it will play out. Could own a $50,000 POS series truck in the future for those die hards who want to do their own work. Invest in rovers while you still can!! There is an 88 on EBay that has to be the ugliest Rover ever seen. The bidding is already at $4,650.
Aloha, Peter, Kona Coffee Rover